Can you use Zen Carts (or other ecommerce system) with Sitebuilder?

[ElsShells]

Hi Everyone,

I have about a month to go before I start using my site as a shop. I am a little worried that the eShop really isn't "secure" because it does not seem to have any sort of security certificate until people go to PayPal to pay. Needless to say, I really don't want to have to shell out the money to get one if I can use Zen Cart, PayPal or another easy shopping cart system.

Does anyone know if I can link this system to my SiteBuilder page...and do so relatively seamlessly? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
El

[wildweasel]

Yes you can use the other carts, Cube Cart is good and easy to configure. I haven't figured out a way yet to make one of the menu buttons link to it but you can put your own link on a page. When you install it from fantastico, it will ask you to make a folder and it will install to that folder and then give you the path for you link(i.e. www.yourdomain.com/folder). Or it can be a stand alone site.Hope this helps.

[kobra]

Does anyone know if I can link this system to my SiteBuilder page...and do so relatively seamlessly?

SiteBuilder creates html web site pages...Cube Cart or Zen Cart are php applications....not strictly compatible with an html site...

Neither of these are modular in the respect that you can just use the buy now or add to cart functions in an html site. For security issues they both use "sessions", and this must be from within the cart script or at least a clever "includes" in another php application, just not in a html site.

The basic accepted recommendation is to skin the cart to look like what you want your site to appear like and use the cart as your front page.

Hope this assists

[colt45]

Hi ElsShells, I'm a Joomla! guy (or Mambo too sometimes).

I can never understand why anyone would want to struggle with a sitebuilder type website for anything other than a static content website.

Joomla! installs in seconds via Fantastico. The initial Joomla setup process takes less than 2 minutes. Installing a template takes 10 seconds. You can change to a new template in 10 seconds. Content is entered and edited via a wysiwyg editor, you don't have to know any html.

osCommerce/ZenCart/Cre-Loaded/etc is good for stores that will have a high product count. I once made an osCommerce site that ended up with over 12,000 individual products (Magic The Gathering game cards). The site was very successful. Unfortunately, it was too successful. The owner was an eBay seller also and couldn't keep up with managing the inventory and sales from the 2 separate places so he unwisely decided to close the website.

If your store will have less than 500 different products, an osCommerce type store won't give you good search engine rankings because there won't be enough product-related content. It's easy to add products to an osCommerce store but adding any other type of content takes a lot of work.

I'm in the process of converting an osCommerce store I made for a customer a few years ago to Joomla:
http://www.northshoreglass.com (osCommerce)
http://dev.outletaloha.com (Joomla, not quite finished but getting there)

On the osCommerce site check out the Information box in the left column, there's a few links to pages that show how they make their products. These pages had to be manually created in html. Compare that to the Photo Gallery on the new site.

Interested?

[kobra]

Colt45,

Okay, you and I are on slightly different sides for this, as I favor an eCommerce application for eCommerce and recommend Zen Cart for this. Serious eCommerce...Joomla is also a great script, and are you using VirtueMart for the cart?

And I argue the 10 seconds - to get the template correctly as one wants...but yes after it has been tweaked then 10 seconds to switch. Zen Cart takes three clicks to switch to another that has been tweaked.

Example ZenCart site: http://www.mitea.com not a lot of flash to distract the shopper from the product being presented. Just clean graphics and presentation.

Guess it depends upon on how serious one is entering the eCommerce area...
Try adding product specific meta data in Joomla, or adding inventory control with stock-by-attributes - i.e. t-shirt s, m, l and red, green & blue so that you can control purchase if you only have 1 red large to only selling 1...

And Harrald with OSC has been promising a new version for about 3 years and nothing yet....it is code that has been around for 'bout 5+years the same basic code and why CREloaded has emerged.

Bottomline - Joomla + a cart component is a great solution for a simple eCommerce launch. If really serious about eCommerce, the dedicated eCommerce solutions are far and away a better avenue.

[colt45]

Kobra, I agree with you on many of your points. And, that is a very nice looking site.

But one of my points is that many online stores won't have enough products to gain an edge in search engine ranking.

Example (store online since 2005?):
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
Produces only 123 results.

Example (a store online less than 2 months and not even complete yet):
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...om&btnG=Search
Produces 472 results and keeps growing as product-related content is continously added. This store has only a small portion of the products entered as of yet.

Yes I'm using VirtueMart, and now that you've mentioned it (thanks!), I'll need to look in to the "product-specific metadata" thing. There may be an extension available that does it automatically.

For my North Shore Glass site, the osCommerce install was good when I first made it but has been steadily declining in search-engine rank because it has pretty much become a static site since it's such a hassle to add any content to it. Hopefully, the Joomla version will get better ranking with current product-related content being continously added.

The main point of my previous post was to recommend avoiding the use of a sitebuilder type installation for an online store. If you have a large product line, ZenCart is good. If not, like I said, I'm a Joomla guy

[kobra]

Colt45,

OK, we might have to agree to disagree.....I really like Joomla and the previous/semi-defunct Mambo - for content sites and especially where there is more than a handful of individuals that are entering content.

But one of my points is that many online stores won't have enough products to gain an edge in search engine ranking.

This is more about active SEO and doing it right so that it is sustainable...
Here is a site opened in March and ZC - http://www.google.com/search?num=100...om&btnG=Search

'bout 1400 results and a PR of "4" - but can do this for any site as long as there is content/products.

The "pretty" site is not being pushed actively BTW.

Unless Soeren has made huge leaps in his sub-script, there is not the order tracking, email, customer tracking, shipping, gateway, etc, etc polish that exists in a eCommerce specific app. He is working on it but I think that he is pretty much alone in this...

I have serveral "scrap booking" sites, that I do not fully understand, but they have on the order of 200-300 items but 1,000's of orders/month. Really good backend tools are almost required to keep this manageable but then as you can see I am biased.

I do also like VirtueMart and if a client has only a handful of items and also wants to have a forum, a gallery, and how-to content - I try to steer them to Joomla also. I just see a distinction be between casual eCommerce and "Serious" eCommerece....Yeah a nebulous definition I know...

I fully agree that attempting to combine a templated "SiteBuilder" or any other is just not the "Smart" way to approach this.

'Apopo

[colt45]

Had to say thanks again for reminding me about the metadata for shop items. In my search for that I found a new SEF component for Joomla that has almost all the bases covered even for VirtueMart. The same developer also produced a simple extension to add the metadata for VM. Not as fancy as the ZenCart output but it does it automatically with no user entry needed.

Now I gotta figure out the best way to do the redirects from the old URLs to the new ones. Got any suggestions?

--added--
Well, got the redirects figured out! Search and you will find. Found a component for Joomla that handles the redirects, it's so easy!

Aloha,
Ken

[ElsShells]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for your help with this one! Believe it or not, I think I am going to try the eShop functionality that Sitebuilder has and see how that works. So far, with the tests I have been doing, I'm thinking it might be relatively easy to use. Not the most beautiful looking thing, but pretty easy to build and add to.

I am way too much a novice to start adding things to files, etc. at this point. Honestly, I thought I was more advanced than I was at this whole thing, and have quickly realized I pretty much suck at setting this stuff up :-(

So, for now Zen Carts, Cube Carts, all of them are on the back burner until I can actually figure out what the heck I am doing!

:-)
Eleanor

[colt45]

Hey ElsShells,

I hope we didn't scare you off with all the techno mumbojumbo.

Out of curiosity, what kind of products are you planning to sell and how many products?